Very thought-provoking. I suspect you’ve heard about this? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/13/chicago-bar-association-t_n_535493.html
Infuriating.

Stopping by per Sean’s tip…

“Dress for the job you want, not the job you’ve got” is something I first heard 20+ years ago. That’s a pretty easy call for men; I’m not sure about women. That’s because men are by and large still in the positions of authority.

This is just another item on a long list of things of disadvantages that women still have to face, particularly in the workplace. In my opinion, what would really help the situation are enlightened, well-rounded, considerate men who will help guide interns and young professionals as they enter the workplace. You’re probably not going to have a lot of those types in management, though.

I was a guest at one of Sean’s classes recently, doing mock interviews with the students. I’m very happy to say that Sean’s discussion must have worked. Everyone — young men and women — were appropriately dressed for the occassion.

Ed

Cheers,
Sean

I really liked your comments and perspective here. I appreciate you digging deeper into the article and cultivating more discussion too.

I totally agree that the type of business you work in plays a huge role in these awkward situations. I agree with you about not wearing to the office what you would wear dancing. But I have a confession: today (casual jeans friday here) I am wearing the shoes I wore dancing last weekend to work- so I already broke your rule. I think shoes are about as far as you can take it though!

It’s interesting that you found the unkempt woman in scenario 1 to be neutral. I guarantee that if you asked that same question to women (and they were being honest) they would NOT view this situation as netural.

I also like your rule of dressing like the boss. I never thought about it like that before but it makes sense to me!

Lastly, I agree that everything in business has an objective. Therefore, we need to define and consider our objectives and make sure they are aligned with how we present ourselves.

Your class sounds awesome! I’d love to hear more about it. If you ever need a guest speaker, I love speaking to college classes via Skype!

Thanks again for coming by!

Nicole

We talked about the rule of thumb as follows, and I’m interested in your reaction and that of your readers: If you’d wear it to go dancing, don’t wear it to the office.

I’m mystified as to why a woman in a business suit would have issues, unless the suit was so, um, form-fitting or short-skirted as to be too revealing… Perhaps the “scarves, fun earrings or colored shoes” were scene as unprofessional. It’s a really fine line between distinctiveness and inappropriateness, and the line shifts quite a lot.

Business is usually conservative for a reason; a bank or accounting firm needs to project safety to clients, while a marketing firm can imbue creativity.

As to your scenarios, here are my “1-word” answers:
1. First woman, it depends what we mean by fashion forward, and what sort of company we are. Sorry, but that’s the truth for me. Second woman, “neutral.” It would depend entirely on the basis of my relationship with her.

2. First woman, “Toady.” The usual (if sexist) term would be “yes-man” even for a woman. There are managers, however, that like sycophants and flatterers and surround themselves with them. I’d hope the regional manager would rather have a more serious and thoughtful team…
3. Grow a thick skin. I’ve worked for and with mostly women for my whole 25-year career. They are often cruel to each other, particularly on these types of topic. My advice is always to dress similarly to the boss.

4. In short order, this manager will note that I don’t mind direction — I’ll likely tell her so. To me, this scenario doesn’t indicate she’s being too nice. Rather, it’s a question of confidence that should be revealed in the hiring process — that said, asking people to do something rather than telling them is a sign of humanity.

Lastly, allow me to offer a general comment — everything in business should align to an objective. So, when considering attire, what is the business objective? Distinctiveness, creativity, individuality are all inward-directed rather than externally focused.

Thanks !

What’s the worknig hard chapter about? Staying late hours to proove your worthiness? I don’t agree with that in most industries at all.

As much as women stereotype women, I’m very curious how men would stereotype the above situations. They probably look at it way differently than women do.