Sorry, Penelope. I’m back.
My fellow career blogger friend Nick Corcodilos pointed out a blog post written by Penelope Trunk that I couldn’t help but question and discuss here on Ms. Career Girl. In the post, titled “Why Job Hoppers Make the Best Employees,” Penelope argues the following five points to be true:
- Job hoppers have more intellectually rewarding careers.
- Job hoppers have more stable careers.
- Job hoppers are higher performers.
- Job hoppers are more loyal.
- Job hoppers are more emotionally mature.
Really Penelope?! Do you REALLY believe these statements or was this another way to get more traffic back to your sites and be a career evangelist to lost recent grads? Why should we believe you? Or is it just easier to believe you so we don’t have to deal with difficult situations and never learn how to overcome adversity at work?
Nick Corcodilos and I have crossed paths over the last year many times. Oddly enough, the topic of several of our conversations has been about Penelope Trunk’s odd career advice and strange personal branding strategies. Well here we are again, looking at more bizarre career advice from the woman who founded my generations most popular career network, brazencareerist.com. Thankfully companies, including Brazen, have teams of diverse staff- to balance out the outliers.
When reviewing the comments on Penelope’s post, I was surprised (and disappointed) to read that so many people were excited and completely on board with Penelope’s advice. Groupthink, anyone? Denial?
For the record, I am 25. I am as Gen Y as it gets in many ways. Like most people in my generation, I’m addicted to technology, I love feedback, I’m used to instant gratification. I’m a bit impatient and I have both a day job and a “passion project.” I’m also a typical Gen Y’er in that since graduating from college four years ago, I have worked 3 different jobs: the first for 7 months, the second for almost 3 years and I started my current position (which is my favorite company thus far and my hopeful long-term landing pad!) 7 months ago. Heck, it weirds me out but I realize that some may even consider ME a job hopper (even though I do not feel like one at all).
Do I think that having 3 jobs in 4 years is something to be proud of? Not necesarily. My job history is what it is, but by no means do I feel it makes me a “better, more loyal, higher performing or more emotionally mature” employee- HA!
In Nick’s recent blog post titled, Job Hopping: Career Crack for Losers, Nick offers some very different advice than Penelope does:
First, toss out your resume. Trash it yourself, before an employer trashes it for you. And I don’t mean you should get a better resume. I mean, Stop using a flyer that says KICK ME on it. Period. No resume. Search for a job strictly through personal referrals and face-to-face contacts which enable you to make your case before your butt is kicked into the can.
Second, find a place to work where you can stay put. Penelope Trunk – who tells you loyalty doesn’t matter and job hopping is good — is sticking a needle in your vein, pumping you full of happy juice, and leaving your career to die while she drives off to the bank to deposit the GoogleAds checks she collects for advertising career crack to confused GenY’s. Stay off the juice. Stay put. Establish a reputation. Then trade on it.
Thank you, Nick, for putting my thoughts into words without me having to do it first. I really like your first point and think that is great advice for anyone, “job hopper” or not.
Of the 5 points in Penelope’s article, I see SOME truth to her first point: job hoppers have more intellectually rewarding careers. Well, yeah, I guess, because they are constantly having to get re-trained, and re-acquainted with a company’s culture, procedures and politics. Intellectually rewarding? Maybe, for some. For others? Terrifying.
Let’s hear it people.
I don’t have to repeat the fact that Corporate America is not what it used to be. Yes, I always say that everyone needs to create their own “career insurance policy.” When debating with Gen X’ers and Boomers, I always remind them that Gen Y’ers have been through the crash of Enron, the wrath of September 11th,the fall of Lehman Brothers and a recession- we are scared to trust these institutions that were supposed to be the pillar of security and the foundation of “The American Dream.”
- What do you think: is job hopping career death or a career savior?
- How would you define a job hopper?
- Does Penelope really believe the stuff she “preaches” about? Do you believe her?
- Would you switch companies every few years to get big raises if given the opportunity?
- Why should (and why do) twentysomethings listen to Penelope Trunk for career advice?
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If anyone can relate to where you're at in your career, it's Nicole Crimaldi: Nicole spent 5 years in corporate America, switched career paths, worked at a start-up, survived a layoff and is now self-employed. Nicole believes that career satisfaction is a huge part of overall happiness. Therefore, she started Ms. Career Girl to help other women get off the treadmill and onto a more fulfilling path.
{ 28 comments… read them below or add one }
I really think that at this point, if you take advice from P. Trunk seriously, you probably deserve what you get.
Everybody knows careers are built on relationships, not how many job titles you have held in 4 years. So, job-hopping gets your further? I don’t buy it. You have to remain in a job for a period of time to establish yourself with your company and with your co-workers in order for a relationship to build. Nick’s advice for jobhunters to work from personal referrals rather than a resume is great. Even these weak connections (that most referrals come from) are based on some sort of personal interraction that left some sort of favorable impression on somebody. Would Penelope call in a favor from a company or co-worker she left stranded after forcing them through the expense of hiring her and then having her leave??
I loved Nick’s advice about working your job search without a resume. In fact, I think so many career sites ONLY focus on how to write a resume, and nothing else. There is SO much more to a job search than a resume- in my opinion that should only be a formality. There’s a good change even the best resumes are going to get tossed, so why bother if you don’t have to!
Not sure what I believe. Everyone’s career path is so different. I do think, though, that bashing someone else’s opinion rather than just making a case for your own is never a good career move, and thus probably not a good thing to do in a careers blog.
I completely agree with you, Jason! I really loved this blog, but sorry, Nicole, if you have to publicly bash someone– it makes me doubt your competence as a career mentor or expert. Bitching and bad mouthing someone is not a great personal branding move.
I don’t disagree with the post, but I disagree with the tone and wording. It is not professional or becoming of you at all.
Chelsea, I’m sorry my opinion gave you a bad impression of me. This blog is definitely not for everyone.
By no means am I a career expert. I’m just an opinionated 25 year old willing to speak up about career related topics that affect us
each day.
Nicole
Nicole, your wording is SPOT. ON. Seriously. I haven’t decided how I feel about Penelope Trunk yet because I like her contradictory approach and who can argue with her own results? HOWEVER. I really like that you hand picked parts of her post out to examine then – and did it in a brutally honest and funny way! It’s so much fun to read your stuff.
I can’t pretend to know how Trunk really feels… whether she writes this stuff for the shock value or because she honestly believes it is beyond me. What I do know is that for Gen Yers looking to land a solid career in a specific industry, job hopping is NOT going to look good on your resume. I’ve found that traditional companies with their traditional HR departments are just that…. traditional. So running around being indecisive isn’t going to help.
That being said, I do think that many MANY Gen Yers have no idea what industry they want to be in and what to do. Staying in a job they’re not passionate about because they feel like they should “stick it out” is a waste of valuable energy and passion. In these scenarios, I think job hopping can help a person figure out what they want to do with their lives. I myself am a compulsive job hopper, but I’m also a freelancer turned entrepreneur and I can do whatever the hell I want
I wouldn’t, however, recommend it for the stereotypical job seeker (which I think encompasses much of Trunk’s audience).
Thanks again for a wonderful post, Nicole!
I am a huge PT fan and while I like that she’s outspoken in almost every aspect of what she’s writing about, I do not necessarily agree with EVERYthing she says.
I am not a fan of job hopping but I like the idea of getting various experiences that would give me various competencies that will make me ready for any career swift or unforeseeable changes life may bring.
I’m a huge Penelope fan, and I also recognize that I believe a lot of what she writes is somewhat for shock value and I don’t think it should be taken verbatim. I think Ms. Trunk just wants to get people thinking. Also, one of the points in her post that sticks out to me is her argument that “job hoppers” try their best to be high performers because they know it is in their best interest to get better skills, build a portfolio, etc. To me, that actually seems valid.
I think the last part of your post says it best. WHY *should* kids my age feel a sense of corporate loyalty? We saw our parents get laid off of jobs they’d been at for 15+ years, and again…all those things you mentioned….Enron…Lehman Brothers….the list goes on. We aren’t going to get pensions. Many of us will not get any type of 401k match or anything like that. We’re lucky to have health insurance from our employers. I can understand feeling a sense of loyalty to the people you work with…the people are what’s important – but “the man” itself? Heck no. I don’t know if that makes sense. I mean obviously don’t jump ship every time the going gets tough. We all have bad days, long days, frustrating clients…we all make mistakes and you owe it to yourself to try to stick it out and get what you can out of the experience. But don’t stay miserable, don’t stay complacent, don’t be in a situation where you are not challenged or learning or growing…in hopes that some day in the distant future it’ll all “pay off.” Put yourself first.
Janet, you took the words out of my mouth. I do feel like Penelope often generalizes an entire generation too much. But I think her advice is just that: advice. It won’t apply to everyone’s specific personality and circumstances. At the end of the day, anyone can choose to take what they like out of it and leave the rest. If it doesn’t apply to you at all, leave it alone.
In the case of job hopping: the job hopping itself isn’t the problem. It’s just a tool. The problem lies in the people who use job hopping and how well it meshes with their goals. Maybe most people won’t benefit from it… but some will.
I also agree that she is trying to get people to think outside of the box. Sadly, judging from some of the comments on her site, there’s still not enough of that [thinking] going on. People want everything to be specifically tailored to THEIR situation … and if it isn’t, it’s completely wrong for everyone else as well. Oh, the irony.
Yes, it seems valid to me that job hoppers try their best to be high performers.
I think the fact that corporate loyalty is gone (from both the employer and the employee’s standpoint) it makes other generations view Gen Y’ers with questioning eyes.
And no, just like a relationship, don’t stay miserable and don’t stay in a situation that you aren’t being true to yourself. Although everyone (except my parents) told me you “have to” stay in your 1st job for at least 1 year, I have no regrets about leaving my first job in less time, because I was so unhappy there and for me it was never going to be a role that I wanted to stay in.
Nicole,
I’ve got plenty to say on this, enough that my comment will be the length of a blog post
. I’m slightly older than most of you that I’m connected to but going through the same things you are because I’ve experience alot of what you talk about in this post. I had what many would consider quite a few jobs after college. I worked about 3 failed startups and left a company before a boss could let me go. Part of why I returned to get an MBA was to push the reset button on my career. So you could say I was once a “job hopper.” That being said, the reason I wanted to push the reset button was so I could stop job hopping.
As far as what Penelope says, there’s another blog post you should link into this that Mark Suster, a Venture Capitalist wrote that is titled “Why You should Never Hire Job Hoppers. Both of these people are the top of their game and have completely different viewpoints. So, to say one way or the other is right is a bit challenging. With the changes that Gen Y and recent college grads are facing (digital nomads on the rise, entrepreneurship on the rise), I think you are going to see a trend of job more job hopping than you’ve seen in the past. While I do think there’s something to be said for a track record and achievement, I think that it doesn’t mean you are a complete F#$# up because you’ve had alot of jobs. Hell, then i’d be classified as a fu#$# up.
On Nick’s point about resumes, I would have to agree. Lately I’ve been coming across many opportunities primarily through networking. As far as staying put and trading on that, it really depends. I quit a job in two weeks back in November if you remember. That was because I hated it with a passion and I knew it was going to get me nowhere. If a situation really is bad and somebody isn’t growing professionally, then I’m all for getting the hell out of that situation. But if they are really evolving, then staying put will have a powerful impact.
Oh Srini- We REALLY need to meet next time I’m in LA, which is hopefully soon, because I feel like I’ve known you for 10 years even though we’ve never met in person!
Nick could probably write a whole book about tossing your resume. I’d be it’s biggest endorser too. People do business with people- meeting in person is a whole different story than seeing a random piece of paper or internet file.
I’ve always admired your ability to identify your unhappiness and take action right away. I know I personally would not have the guts or clarity to do this. You are also good at not looking back when you make a decision. To me these are qualities of a true leader, even though others may view your job history as spotty.
The landscape is definitely changing. You’re right, location independent internet entrepreneurs are on the rise. Big companies are either failing or being so regulated that their hands are tied. Even so, I wonder how employers view the “hopping” and what they define as a hopper (which is obviously industry specific).
Thanks again for another thoughtful comment Srini!
Nicole
I always thought these types of employees were better off just contracting, from what I’ve seen in 4 years of recruiting. I have been labeled a “job-hopper” because of the industry that I work in there’s a high turnover rate in recruiting. Everyone wants more money and now days the only way to get it is to move around. With changes in the economy I can see companies hiring new employees at what they left their old company at, so maybe the job hopping will slow down with less jobs out there…
But like I said… some people should just stick to contracting if they like change. This is where Penelope said: “If you change jobs often, then you’re always challenged with a lot to learn — your learning curve stays high. ” When I interview people they tend to say “Well I adapt quickly to new situations and environments and I’m always learning something new. I love being challenged, so that’s mainly why I contract.” Case and point.
Since I’ve graduated, I’ve had 8 jobs, and I just turned 25. Of course, a handful of them were held concurrently and for short periods of time as a means to do other things– like travel. And others were expected to be a short term thing– like PR consulting. But I always viewed this behavior as a reflection of the market– which has increasingly turned to freelance and contract work.
Penelope writes from her experience, which, if you’re like her, is probably inspiring– someone did it, I can too! But if you’re not…. well, if you’re not, you’ll probably disagree with her advice and not take it. Right?
You bring up another great point about holding positions concurrently and doing freelance work. I feel that our generation views “moonlighting” or having a side venture (whether paid or not) as normal. Other generations may find this threatening or question if we can still focus 100% at work while having outside activities.
I always tell my manager that writing this blog and mentoring college women makes me so much happier and more productive at my job. Because I have Ms. Career Girl, I’m satisfying two sides of my brain (creative and mathematical). I’m doing some trying to do some good in my off time and I’m challenged during the day at work. If I only had one of these, my satisfaction level would only be half full.
It’s also important to remember that most of Penelope’s experience with corporate America comes from working in marketing, where people really do move around every 2-4 years and it’s not weird. If you work in a different industry there might be different expectations on how long you’ll stay at any given position.
Myself, I took heart from that post because I am notorious for wanting a new challenge every couple years. Luckily, I’m in PR/Marketing, so my industry is pretty used to that. I think “creatives” get more leeway for that kind of job movement.
Great point! And yes, I’ve heard the same things about PR and marketing, that longevity isn’t nearly as heavily weighted as being “fresh.”
My industry, banking and finance, is a whole different story though. Probably because in my industry we like to portray a sense of stability and security to their clients and staff.
I LOVE new challenges too- which is evidenced by my job history. Now that I’m in a company that I really respect and love, I love that I have the option of holding different positions within the firm without changing companies which, for me, is the best of both worlds!
Wow, I’m glad to hear you say all of this. I LOVE the Brazen Community, but I do find Penelope’s advice to be really far off base, and potentially really damaging to new grads. Yes, when you’re young take a few unecessary risks because you never know when it can pay off… but other than that, in the real world job hoppers are NOT considered good investments for any company. I’m a lot like you…. 27, and now starting my 3rd industry in 6 years since graduation: Entertainment/Music Industry, Teaching English Abroad, and now Social Media & Marketing, but in each interview I have to explain ad nauseum how I’ve spent 2-3 years in a job and why changing gears has been useful, and it’s a tough line to walk. New grads do not have the luxury of experience, and shouldn’t really follow Ms. Trunk’s overly excited advice that I think is more meant for someone who has been working about 5 years. She does have a way of reinvigorating someone who’s gone off the wrong track, but new grads should NOT take her word as law.
I agree with you on everything in this article. Job hopping will always look bad on a resume and you should avoid it if you can (BTW, since you were at your last employer for 3 years I wouldn’t call you a serial job hopper).
I do want to remind you on one thing. Yes, Gen Y saw the collapse of Enron and Lehman Bros, etc – so did Gen X and the Boomers. For Gen X and the Boomers this is not our first recession either. Times were tough in the 1980s (can you say Reganomics?) and X’ers watched their parents getting laid off. Most X’ers graduated into a recession and with few job options. The prospect of staying at the same job for 30 years like our parents did was gone even then.
What I’m saying is while it seems bad, it’s bad for everyone. Every generation will have a story of “tough times” and the older you are the more stories you will have.
@Agent Friday – just wanted to say that I agree with you completely and glad you wrote this comment so I don’t have to.
If you want to change jobs every few months, be a freelancer/contractor. Otherwise, it’ll immediately raise a red flag to potential employers. If I were an employer looking to fill a full-time position, I want my new hire to stick around for more than a few months–it takes time to train someone new and it takes time for the newbie to get up to speed.
Having said that, corporations need to stop treating their employees like crap. Nurture the talents and make sure that you’re giving enough compensation so employees won’t have a reason to constantly look for greener pastures.
I do think it’s a good idea to re-assess your employment situation every year to make sure you’re not stagnating. If you do, talk to your employers and see if you can do anything about it. If that doesn’t work out, then maybe it’s time to consider a new job. I personally don’t consider changing jobs every 3 years “job-hopping”, especially if you’re staying in the same field. But YMMV.
Re: Penelope, I’ve known about her for a while now (I first came across her stuff on Yahoo). Her articles often have some truth to them, but IMO she intentionally exaggerates her points to get attention. And more often than not, folks eat it up.
I love all her writings. She is a great author! I think people critic her sometimes ’cause she really brings new stuff! If you don’t know about her artworks, have a look at this recent interview with Trunk, very interesting and surprising : http://www.ciac.ca/magazine/en/entrevue.htm
I run a retained executive search firm, working only on positions paying $100K to $500K. On a daily basis, I evaluate job hunters. Yes, the candidates I evaluate are beyond Generation Y, but all of the candidates I evaluate were once that age.
What do I see? The biggest portion of the unemployed are job hoppers. They’ve bounced themselves into unemployment, and now no one will hire them. Will I touch one? No way. Will my clients have conniption fits if I present them? Absolutely.
Are they great workers? Rarely. Usually, they are socially clumsy (like Penelope Trunk, who is admittedly socially awkward and suffers from a mild version of autism). They’re impatient and easily dissatisfied. They make bad career decisions. They often have changed jobs because they’re incompetent, not because of their tremendous competence.
And they have lots of stories, lots of excuses. Once in a while, there’s a legit reason for their goofy career path. But rarely.
Sorry folks – job hunters get dumped immediately by me.
I’m amazed no one has taken a good look at Penelope herself. Most of her resume is bullshit, or at least cannot be verified. Here’s a good article about her that did a lot of digging: most other people just prefer to take her at her word–
http://unvarnishedtruth.wordpress.com/2008/12/08/penelope-trunk-an-example-to-others-delusional-or-just-a-media-whore/
I don’t think you understand PT. She doesn’t care if her advise is useful or even consistent. Like Sarah Palin, she just wants to be in the spotlight 24/7, so she’ll say anything to keep herself there. She knows that in this “new age” of media, it’s not the depth behind what you say but the novelty of it that gets clicks, and the more absurd both PT and Sarah get, the more attention and links they’ll attract. End of game. And it is a game.
I’m in my 30′s, and I wouldn’t necessarily take any of Penelope Trunk’s advice. At all.
But I am a job hopper and a chronic freelancer and I went from working on tiny commercials to a huge, big-budget film in less than 3 years from job hopping and freelancing. My co-workers were still slaving away at the job I initially quit when I wrapped the film.
And as a writer, I went from writing crappy website copy to travel guides in 2 years from doing the same thing. I am more confident and skilled than most people I’ve worked with who have been at the same job most of their career.
Most jobs won’t advance you very far. If they do, stay with them. But they’re rare.
I’m gen X, not gen Y, but I’d be wary of taking PT’s career advice. She’s inconsistent and contradictory as I’ve explained here:
http://baileybear.hubpages.com/hub/Penelope-Trunk-Brazen-Careerist-or-Brazen-Narcissist